SEARCH

Subscribe to our newsletter:

Name:

Email:

where do you live?
UK BRAZIL SOMEWHERE ELSE

Minister of People

The first thing we hear when we enter Seu Jorge’s home/office in Pinheiros, São Paulo, is a Justin Timberlake track booming from his speakers. Not exactly the kind of thing you’d expect from one of Brasilian music’s main representatives abroad, but without a doubt, a sign of his good taste – or, at the very least, his broad knowledge of international pop music.

The man himself is standing in front of the speakers, playing the flute and improvising a harmony above the melody of the song. We’re in the garage of the three-level house that he has transformed into a space for listening to and making music, with lots of instruments scattered on the floor, a fridge full of Brahma beer in the corner (he was the face of the brand a few years back) and posters of the different shows he’s played across the world gracing the walls.

It’s three o’clock on a sunny Saturday afternoon and we’re here to mediate a conversation between Seu Jorge and JosĂ© Junior of AfroReggae. Jorge and Junior’s band were set to tour the UK together during November ( the group would pull out weeks later due to problems with the tour promoter) and this was then the perfect opportunity to get to hear what they both have to say – to each other and to the rest of us. Before we call Junior, we take some time out to chat to Seu Jorge and find out what he’s been up to – and, of course, we get to the bottom of his ill-fated trip to London last year, which ended up with the star being unjustly barred by British immigration. We’ll get to that a bit later.

Seu Jorge arrived from Rio yesterday and is heading off to New York tomorrow. Today has been set aside for chilling out at home, listening to music – and chatting with Jungle. We talk about his new album (“AmĂ©rica-Brasil”), jazz (he’s into guitarist John Abercrombie) and his 3-year-old daughter (who already already plays a few notes on the trumpet), whilst we drink juice and listen to vinyls and MP3s (he shows us a record by JackDeJohnette).

When we finally touch on the subject of the UK trip, he shifts uncomfortably in his chair, but he doesn’t avoid the subject. With his deep, calm voice, he says “England isn’t doing very well, you know? People there aren’t happy. They’re afraid of violence, of terrorism. Here we have different sorts of problems, but we don’t suffer from this neurosis. I’m only going there now because of the fans”. Speaking of problems, the ones over here and over there, what’s the solution? Can music really change the world? “It can’t change the world, but it can change people”.


And that’s more than enough

Coming up, that Chat between Jorge and Junior.


Seu Jorge: I’m very interested in the Brasilian people. And I see that you are too. Not just because you’re developing a new way of working, but because you’re a leader and something of an older brother to these guys. So, I want to ask you for advice, in the emotional sense. You’re a master at what you do, you know how to deal with people’s emotions and expectations. You’re more than equiped to answer a few questions for me. For example, do you believe that a new generation is coming along with a renewed sense of political consciousness? Is it possible for the nation as a whole to grow and develop?

JosĂ© JĂșnior: Brasil is internationally known for its entertainment industry. Be it football, music, carnival. And, for the most part, all this talent comes out of the poorer communities. Everyone earns off the back of these individuals except for the main protagonists themselves, except for the epicentre from where these people came from. So, I think that these communities need a cut of this money and people need to have access to education. It sounds like a cliche, but it’s true; education is the foundation of everything. For example, where did Seu Jorge come from? Gogo da Ema. What has Gogo da Ema gained from this? At the moment, happiness. But the whole industry that has grown up around the Seu Jorge phenomenon has done nothing to invest back into this community. Do you agree?
Completely.
Everyone earns off the back of your success, more than you do yourself. It’s the record companies and men in suits who come out on top. I think that we need to get this money circulating back into these communities. One more thing: groups like AfroReggae and Seu Jorge end up reinforcing the stereotype that in order to do well, poor kids living in marginalised areas need to excell at football or music. I think that we need to start broadening our horizons a bit more. We need to build up the community’s sense of self-worth.

So much so that everyone living in Gogo da Ema dreams about leaving there, because they feel that there’s no future there. I felt like this growing up.
Gogo is known for the prison there, it has one of the highest homicide rates in the world.

I was 16 and had a job at the Banco Nacional, and used to have to wear a uniform. Where I lived we only had dirt roads, and I had to put plastic bags on my feet to try not to get my shoes dirty. But I always got dirty, I always turned up with mud on the bottom of my trousers. Then when you go to speak to someone, you always have that feeling of inferiority because you come from a poor community. You end up avoiding talking to people so as not to bother them. And that feeling’s reinforced when someone sees your dirty trousers and says “Damn, living rough, ain’t ya?” I didn’t live rough, but my home was far away and I was constantly embarrassed. I didn’t understand why things were like they were, it was only later on that I realised: the politicians weren’t doing anything. You end up a bit inert, but I still believe in the essence of the Brasilian people. And when a guy with no education encourages his son to become a judge? These are people with an iron will who believe in their own ability. These are the people that I’m trying to learn from, because I notice that that’s the kind of mentality you need to produce a solid product. When I started doing theatre, it was with a company that was open to anyone. I was alongside people with a good education, intellectuals. I had an inferiority complex because I was black, poor and untrained, because people would recognise that I’d had it tough, that kind of thing. I was 23 when I joined, and I`d already seen everything, I’d already been through a lot. And I ended up really getting on with this amazing mix of people.

I think that we end up helping to reinforce the idea that the favelas are full of drug dealers, but there are no dealers in the favelas, only people selling drugs. The dealers don’t even set foot in the favelas. The worst criminals are the politicians, who transform the place into an electoral corral. It’s the kind of big boss mentality that is diminishing in the Northeast but which is increasingly prevalent in the favelas. There’s a lot of scheming going on behind the scenes. And worst of all, when the issue is raised, it’s treated as a matter of public security. But it’s got nothing to do with security! More police on the street won’t solve anything. It’s a social issue, it’s about opportunities, which are really very difficult to find. The world today is one big favela. Africa, Asia, Eastern Europe, any place with ethnic or racial discrimination. And at the same time there’s never been so much information as there is now. But it’s very poorly directed. As a black person who’s done well, Seu Jorge, you end up closing a lot of doors for yourself. Today, even without your consent, people have chosen you as a figurehead. And nine years ago, no one even knew you existed.

And if they did know then they pretended that I didn’t exist. When I started in the theatre, I had an ideology. I wanted to make friends, i didn’t want to be the star. I wanted the guys to look me in the eye, see what I was thinking and not be scared. Music gave me this opportunity. Guys with a guitar in tow don’t create problems for anyone. It’s an eternal struggle that we’re always going to have. Apart from the black movement or pro-Brasilian movements, we’re going to have to constantly fight for justice and respect, and that’s on a continental level. I’m interested in discussing it, but I don’t want to be nationalistic. I enjoy making music but I think that my life is moving in another direction.

Specialists across the world are predicting that Brasil has the possiblity of developing over the next 20 years. In other words, my daughters could live in a better society right now; we don’t want to lose these kids to hunger, looking at Big Macs on the TV and wanting to sell chewing gum when they are five just to buy one. This has to stop. You never see as many children juggling at traffic lights and begging in other countries as you do in Brasil. We’ve got a serious problem. We have to politicise these kids.

We need to transform these things. We need stronger aims and goals. There should be a Ministry of the People. The president should be someone who’s responsible for the state, for looking after the people and accepting responsibility. But that’s not what happens; nowadays the president gives priority to foreign policy and parliamentary issues... No one has to explain their actions to us. I pay through the nose, so I’m also the boss of this country. And I feel that the guys working for me, my employees, up above, are no good. The president, all these people wih jobs that are paid for by us, they’re second rate employees. We can’t manage to get these bastards into line. They’re all bastards, who are full of hot air and never show what they’re actually doing. And we’re the ones working and producing the resources for them to administer; our schools, our culture, our security. So don’t you think it’s time to create an independent state, run by the people?

I agree, but how would we actually do that? Today, NGOs and social movements end up doing this. But it’s difficult to change things with the government. Your Ministry of the People, for example, wouldn’t work because, without a doubt, the man in charge wouldn’t represent the people. Just like the president we’ve got now, who comes from the working class one of the people but doesn’t put their interests first. It would just be another politician manipulating things again.

But I’m talking about something independent. The problem is leadership. I’m looking for a leader.

Here in Rio we created the F4, which is more or less what you’re talking about. It’s made up of AfroReggae, Nós do Morro, these organizations that work in the four regions of Rio, and it’s a sort of social consortium, set up to discuss problems in the favelas. More than just discussing problems, we try and find ways to make business, to get money in, creating the necessary infrastrucure, bringing in powerful people, the media. Bringing in the public to discuss what’s going on, since we’re the majority, and to try and change things. There are good things going on in Brasil, but they don’t get any press. There’s a non-official network that’s trying to make a change. In Palmas, Ceará, a guy created a currency called the “palma”. It’s a form of credit that people can use. One Real is worth one “palma”. But to use the currency, you have to be invited to join by a friend, who doesn’t have to act as a guarantor. There’s a whole cycle and the amount of defaulting is minimal. It’s based on cooperation. The guys created a financial management prototype that won an award from a Swiss bank. Why isn’t it exported? Why aren’t people interested?
Another thing, take Nós do Morro for example. Apart from the fact that they’re from the favelas, they’re still one of the biggest theatre groups in Brasil. Now they’re in the media’s glare, everyone thinks that they were set up last year. But the group’s been going for more than 20 years! It’s as if they didn’t exist before City of God. We have to get over this invisibility. I think that we have to do something big here in Rio. In January, AfroReggae will be celebrating its 14th anniversary, and we’re organizing events throughout the city, even in Morro do Alemão.

I was thinking about not playing in Rio for a while, but if it was in Complexo do Alemão, I’d be up for it. I want to see if these rich little boys are really into me and will cross over into the favela to see the show.
I think they’ll come. Look, Complexo do Alemão is made up of eleven favelas, 170 thousand people.

Anything like this that you invite me to play at, I’m in. Complexo, Baixada, Gogo... Anything past Tijuca you can count on me. I’m not going to play in the Zona Sul, but I’m really up for the favelas, I’ll bring my crew along. The acoustic guitar needs to me heard again in the favelas. It was Mano Brown who pointed it out to me. He was saying that in the favelas there are lots of graffiti artists, MCs and so on, but no more Jorge Benjor. He said to me: you’re the only one who can make the brothas in the favela start playing acoustic guitar again. And that stuck in my head. I want to give it a go and encourage one or two guys to pick up a guitar and make their own sound. In Rio, you still hear guitars in the favelas, but in São Paulo it’s just rap. And Mano’s pushing for more Brasilian music as well. More samba, cavaco. I agree.
In 2001 we created a project called Urban Connections. Everyone played: Caetano, Gil, etc. And the project’s returning next year, there’ll be four shows: Vigário, Parada de Lucas, Alemão and Cantagalo. I think that you have to play at Alemão. It’s the centre of the drugs war in Rio, and we’ve been working to turn people away from crime, and to show that the favela isn’t just full of criminals.

I’m really up for it, it’s really important for me, as a life philosophy. I come from there and I don’t give anything back, but my people need me. People in these communities also need to hear music, it’s a way for us to integrate the city.



Gilles PetersonThe British DJ is the special guest
who will accompany Seu Jorge on his UK tour. Here you find his thoughts about the renowned singer/actor and the AfroReggae group.

“Seu Jorge is a real phenomenon internationally - sometimes I look at him as a young Bob Marley. I think he has a really bright future and I find the whole double life of actor/singer quite fascinating. I recently recorded a live session with him on my radio show (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/gillespeterson) The tour with Jorge should be amazing - I’m really looking forward to hearing material from his new album which is coming out next year I think.”

“I first met AfroRreggaAe when I went to Rio
to make some podcasts about Brazilian music
(www.brahma.com/gillespeterson) and since then I’ve listened to their records. They are a fascinating organisation who over a decade have set up dozens of workshops for kids and young people in favelas in Rio, doing an incredible job. Live they are like dynamite, with dancers, rappers, musicians.
Really refreshing to see and hear..!”


By Ronaldo Evangelista